the first 30 seconds and he's out of a be jo. don't do that. whatever you do you'll get in trouble. jon: i will try not to. jenna: thanks, everybody, we'll see you tomorrow. jenna: new details about the possible motive for the marathon terror attacks as we expect more charges against the surviving suspect. another big news day. glad you are with us, i'm jenna lee is that i'm jon scott. dzhokhar tsarnaev cannot speak much due to his injuries. after due case of what is being reported as written interrogation investigate errings are saying they now think they know what drove tsarnaev and his brother allegedly to carry out the deadly bombings. the feds say religious tpef srer and not ties to foreign terror groups appears to be the motivation. the criminal complaint against tsarnaev lace out allegations against him and his brother who died in that violent shootout with police just days after the bombings. the teenage terror suspect is now charged with using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction, crimes that could carry the death penalty.

molly line is live for us right now in boston. molly. >> reporter: jon the affidavit from a top fbi agent gives us an inside look at just what the investigators have as far as evidence is concerned in this case. they say that they have been looking at a video tape from the scene on boylston street that shows that the two suspects involved arrived on the scene of the bombings about 11 minutes, approximately 11 minutes before the bombs actually went off, both carrying large knapsacks. and then they both detached from the crowd, they repositioned, then bomber two, who is dzhokhar tsarnaev the man in custody here at the hospital is seen flipping that knapsack onto the ground according to paperwork, brie size lee what the agent writes, here it is, approximately 30 seconds before the first explosion. he lifts his phone to his ear as if he's speaking on his cellphone, and keeps it there approximately 18 seconds. a few seconds after he finishes the call the large crowd of

people around him can be scenery acting to the first explosion. virtually every head turns to the east towards the finish line and stairs in that direction in apparent bewilder meant and alarm. bomber two virtually alone among the individuals in front of the restaurant appears calm. this is one of the reasons these two subjects careful to the attention of investigators, their reactions were not the same as the crowd around them according to investigators. here is a little more from that paperwork. he glances to the east and then calmly but rapidly begins moving to the west away from the direction of the finish line. he walks away without his knapsack, having left it on the ground where he had been standing. approximately ten seconds later and explosion occurs in the location where bomber two had placed his knapsack. also, revealing upblgd the heading of bombers emerged some more information about what happened later on in the week when investigators say the two suspects were looking to escape the area and carjacked an

individual in cambridge. the victim tells authorities that the man approached a vehicle, his vehicle while he was sitting in it and tapped on the passenger window. here is what is written in those documents. when the victim rolled down the window the man reached in, opening the door, and entered the victim's vehicle. the man pointed a firearm at the victim and stated, did you hear about that boston explosion? and, i did that. the man removed the magazine from the gun and showed the victim that it had a bullet in it, and then reinserted the magazine. the man then stated, i am serious. incredibly that carjack victim managed to escape from that scene, contacting authorities, letting them know what had happened. he was able to give the story, which is just incredible. the vehicle, his vehicle, not so fortunate. it was filled with bullet holes, the windows crashed out and is in very much rough shape now and is certainly in evidence. jon: it's not really clear which of the brothers made those statements to the carjack victim, is that true?

>> not in the paperwork, that's right. they don't say which of the two actually made those statements, which could be perceived to be a confession, and in the context of this pretty much a warning to that individual, to that victim saying, you know, i am serious as he says. jon: molly line in boston for us, molly, thank you. jenna: in other big news today two men captured in canada for allegedly plotting a terror attack on a passenger train are making their first court appearance today. the suspects from two niece gentleman and the united arab emirates are not canadian citizens. canadian police told us they had been tracking the men for a while and that apparently the public was never in any danger, again a foiled plot here. canadian officials claim the suspect had support from al-qaida elements inside eye than ra. iran's government is officially denying any involve. in the alleged plot, but still so many questions than answers. >> an 18-year-old illinois man

accused of trying to join an al-qaida affiliated group will be in federal court in chicago today. authorities claim he wanted to join fighters in 4 syria, and was busted by an undercover fbi agent posing as an al-qaida recruiter. he was arrested as he prepared to board a flight to turkey at o'hare airport. now he's charged with attempting to provide material shoeport to terrorism. jenna: to overseas now a terrorist attack in libya, a car bomb explodes outside the french efp embassy in tripoli hurting two french guards. the early morning attack happened before any you have the embassy staff arrived. the explosion started a fire that spread through much of the building. the french president is con tkefpling the attack as is the libyan government. no one group has claimed responsibility. u.s. officials tell reuters, they believe al-qaida is behind it. >> in spain authorities arresting new north africans suspected of having links to al-qaida. officials say they had no immediate plans for an attack,

but both men had, quote, similar profiles to the suspects who carried out the attack in boston, meaning they were radicalized online by going to chat rooms and forums. the arrests come just days before the madrid marathon this weekend. jenna: so many terror related stories we are following today along with our top story out of boston. just yesterday senator lindsey graham warned islam is extremists are still a serious threat to our nation. >> our nation is at war, the enemy is radical islam, defined as the taliban, al-qaida, and affiliated groups. the question i have regarding this case, is there any association between these two individuals and the groups i just named to allow enemy combatant status to be conferred upon the suspect in boston. jenna: we now know according to the white house that is not going to happen. senator lindsey graham

republican of south carolina is a member of the judiciary committee and stepped out of a hearing to join us. nice to have you back on the program. >> thank you very much. jenna: let's talk a little bit about what you had to say about radical islam. you say yo we need to up our game. what specifically do you mean by upping our game against radical islam. >> the first thing we need to do is reject the narrative of this administration that osama bin laden is dead, the wars are receding and we are all safe. they've been trying to suggest since the death of osama bin laden that al-qaida is basically being dismantled, and the wars are receding. what i mean by upping our game? making sure that when the ambassador in libya tells the state department, and the department of defense, that al-qaida flags are flying over benghazi, i can't defend my consulate against a coordinated attack, that you do something about it. that when a consulate is under attack an and ambassador is missing for seven and a half

hours you have the ability to go to their rescue, and after the fact you don't lie to the american people. when it comes to boston, how in the world could we have missed these two guys? the russians told us about the older brother. my problem with this administration is that their policies are failing. they do not -- they do not believe that we are at war. they ignored shines and warning inks from libya. we haven't had one person detained as an enemy combatant for intelligence gathering purposes since he's been president. when we read these people their miranda rights and give them a lawyer the only way you can gather intelligence is if the terror suspect and the lawyer will allow you to do so. intelligence gathering through plea bargaining is not going to make us safe. jenna: so we spoke to a former member of the fbi on our show yesterday that seems to not have a problem with miranda rights, that is their opinion. we'll see what they get as far as information from this one suspect. >> can i mention something. jenna: please. >> i don't have a problem with

miranda rights. this man can only be tried in federal court. he's never eligible for military commissions. a first year law student could convict this person. what i'm worried about is what does he know about future attacks? he's telling us that his brother was the bad guy, he's sort of just along for the ride. they had no international connections. guess what, he's down-playing his involvement. what i am suggesting is that we use the national security legal system where we can interview him without a lawyer to gather intelligence to prevent a future attack, rather than having to negotiate through his lawyer to get any information. jenna: but, if i could, senator, there seems to be a lot of discrepancy about some of the information come being out about this investigation. >> right. jenna: we've all seen it, you know, played out on the news and otherwise. i would like to drill down a little bit into an even change you just had about the boston terror attacks with the s*epbg o secretary of home land security january elt napolitano. we showed an older brother, this

tkhaou owe, that is secretary napolitano. we just showed a picture. you said in interviews that the fbi has told you that they missed tamerlan leaving the country and going to russia because maybe his name was misspelled, that was one of the reasons given. we just heard from secretary napolitano that he did indeed, and these are her words, ping when he left the united states, and then the investigation seemed to be cleared during his time away. where ills the discrepancy? what is the truth? because it goes to the question, is our system working or isn't it? >> clearly it's not working. i'm dumbfounded wither 4 answer. i was told dar -- with her answer. i was told two nights ago in march they got a letter from the russian intelligence services that the older brother was a radical islamist, watch out for him. they claimed to have interviewed him. they interviewed his family. they went to the school he was attending and interviewed people. they sent the file back to russia in october of 2011, asked for more information and they never heard from them again and they claimed the system did not pick him going to russia in

january of 2012 because the name was mis misspelled. now i hear from the homeland security secretary that we did know he left the country are, we just didn't know he came back. this makes no sense to me. how in the world could we have missed all of this? and this is why we need a national security legal system to focus on gathering intelligence. we have turned over the intelligence gathering system to criminal defense lawyers and the accused. we have been using enemy combatant information to fight the war on terror for a decade. we've held people as enemy combatants associated with al-qaida and the taliban over decades, including american citizens and we got a loot of good information. what they are telling me doesn't add up. jenna: we'll look for more clarify indication on that as well, senator. we appreciate your thoughts on it. i want to make it clear not viewers the hearing you're in is really supposed to be about immigration. this has come up the boston terror attack because some have raised questions about what it

means as to who we are hraoeti letting in the country. dzhokhar the tkurpbt suspect is an american citizen. what do we do about people inside the country, american citizens like you and me who may be a threat, how do we find them and what do we do when we do find them? >> let me tell you what we've done for decades. any time an american citizen joins forces with enemies of the nation they can be held and prosecuted as enemy combatants. he is not eligible for military commission trial because american citizens are only going to be tried in civilian courts. but in world war ii when american citizens aided the german saba tours they all were tried by the military and hung. we've had three american citizens held as enemy combatants for helping the taliban and al-qaida. i've been a military lawyer for 340ers kwrao. you don't have a right to join forcers with the enemy and attack your own country. you're engaging in an act of war when you decide to do that.

every country has a right to gather intelligence to make itself safe. i'm not worried about the criminal case, anybody can handle that matter. anybody involved in terrorist activity again the united state, particularly from inside our country can be held under our national security laws to gather intelligence. jenna: only a minute left, real quick, what do you think is the message we're sending the world, our even mes and our citizens by the way we're handling the suspect today? >> we don't believe we are at war, we are fighting a crime and these are kind of wayward people, and this is really not that big a deal. give them a lawyer, read them their miranda rights and we'll plea bargain and we're really not fighting international radical islamists who hate our guts. the signal we are saying is we are disarming ourselves at a time of great threat. the signal i want to send if you're an american signal and you join forces with radical islam to hurt our kill americans we will capture or kill you. you do so at your own peril. boston and benghazi are national security failures. this administration is off track

and there is more to come. we need to be fighting a war not a crime. jenna: you gave us a lot to think about and talk about over the next several hours and days. we look forward to our conversations and look forward to having you back. thank you. >> thank you. jon: we will continue the conversation about the fallout from the marathon terror attacks, and news that the bombing suspects received asylum in the u.s. that fact prompting calls to slow down plans to overhaul the nation's immigration laws. senator rand paul is among those pushing for a cautious approach. he will be here live. plus a rare public hearing on the obama administration's controversial drone program. lawmakers wanting to know more about who our government is targeting and killing. a retired air force colonel set to testify joins us live ahead.

jon: the boston tere owe attacks

may complicate efforts to a bi-partisan immigration reform proposal. the bombing suspect received asylum in the u.s. more than ten years ago. republican law mangers like senator rand paul are urging caution on changing immigration laws right now. senator paul writing to senate majority leader harry reid, quote we should not proceed tpwh-l we understand the specific failures of our immigration system. why did the current system allow two individuals to immigrate to the united states from a chechen republic of russia who committed acts offer to reus eupl. were there any save guards? could this ha been prevented, dores the immigration laws before prevent this? jay carney was asked about this at the press wraoefg. >> do you think rand paul has a point at all that what happened in boston reflects something wrong with the current system of immigration >> we believe we need to move forward with comprehensive immigration reform for a whole host of reasons and the benefits

that reform will provide to our country, to our economy, to our security. and we agree with those, coauthors of the legislation in the senate who have made the point in recent days that enhancing our security is one of the reasons why we should press forward with comprehensive immigration reform. >> senator rand paul, republican from kentucky joins us now. you heard jay carney's answer there, is he ignoring or dismissing your concerns? >> well, i'm not sure they are make attention to what i'm asking. i think there needs to be a significant part of of the debate over immigration reform needs to be over national security. i'm not even saying delay it, i'm just saying make it mart of the debate. that may mean that the debate takes longer. we had two refugees admitted, the same way these brothers were admitted to my town, bowling green, kentucky even, an, and they were accused of buying missiles, and having tp-fps on an exploded ied several years

before they were admitted. we are not doing enough scrutiny on student visas and refugee talents. press canceled a program where 25 countries were targeted and we said they need extra scrutiny to make sure they are not coming here to attack us. president obama has disbanded that. he's also disbanding money to train our pilots to be armed in the cockpit. i would like every pilot to be armed and trained in a cockpit and president obama is getting rid of of the funding for that. i think we are sending the wrong signal here and it's a wrong signal to say hurry up and let's pass immigration reform but let's not be sure the country is safe for people who want to attack us. jon: you know, in the case of the tsarnaev brothers the older brother, tamerlan got more than a background check, he got an fbi interview, and that didn't uncover what he ultimately

pulled off there in boston. >> there are reports now today, and i don't know if they can be confirmed, but the reports today are that his trip back to chechnya wasn't lit up on the radar screen for the fbi because his name was misspelled. this isn't the first time we've heard of this a misspelling being a problem with a watch list. how many people did the russians ask us to look at in the last couple of years is my question. if it was 50,000 that may be an impossible task but if the russians asked us to look at 10 people, i want to know why we didn't do more scrutiny, why we didn't follow-up when he was leaving the country. i think a big tip-off to being radicalized is going back to the middle east and meeting with those who are radicalizing these people. so i would say that he should have been on some sort of list, a watch, if we had evidence that he was a potential threat. jon: kentucky senator rand paul, republican, thank you, sir for joining us. >> thank you. jon: and fox news will be right back with more "happening now."

♪ [ man ] excuse me miss. [ gasps ] this fiber one 90 calorie brownie has all the deliciousness you desire. the brownie of your dreams is now deliciously real.

>> fox news alert out of france today. the french parliament passes a brand-new law leagu legalizing same-sex marriage after a month of debate and pretty wild protests in the streets of france. the 14th country to legalize gay marriage. our supreme court is taking a look at big cases involving gay marriage in in country. a decision from the supreme court in a few of the cases is expected some time in the month of june. jon: a key hearing underway right now on capitol hill with homeland security secretary janet napolitano testifying about immigration reform. her comments coming in the wake of the boston bombings. after the so-called gang of eight, a bi-partisan group of

senators released their overhaul bill just last week. now congressman paul ryan is stepping into the debate as he tries to broker a deal across party lines working to bridge the gap on issues like border security, and the number of government visas issued. the immigration overhaul proposal could have major impact on the nation's political landscape pumping millions of new hispanic voters into the election threat which if history is any indicator would be a good threupbg fo thing for democrats. joe trippi a former howard dean campaign manager and fox news contributor. do you believe the immigration bill on balance would be a bigger net benefit to democratic politicians? >> i think it will benefit both parties. one of the problems that the republicans have had is that their opposition to immigration reform to reaching a compromise has really hurt them in the latino and hispanic communities.

it's one of the reasons that after george bush got 4 4% of their votes in 2008 -- swore, excus2004, excuse me. the hispanic support has been declining nationwide. finding a compromise would help republicans start to talk to hispanics. they are much morey lidge justly -- they are a very religious community. there are tkpwrourpbdz on values and other things that republic republicans could talk to the hispanic community and actually start winning their votes again as george bush had reached out to them. in the very beginning as the people become citizens and are eligible to vote, look, republicans have never won them, it's going to be not 12 million people because only about 75% of the new citizens would be

hispanic, a pew study would show. it would probably benefit democrats greatly to have the new voters on the rolls. jon: if good politics is good policy and if this thing gets passed by the congress and signed into law, then you see benefits for both parties? >> no, look, i think right now you've got to look at what happened in 2012, the white vote in the united states has declined to under 75% of the vote now, that is a place where republicans have always done well. mitt romney won up near 60% of the -- of those votes. that vote declines, it's all about death rates and birth rates, and the hispanic population is expected to double in the next decade or two, so the republicans have got to reach out to that community, and if they keep fighting immigration reform i don't think that community is going to warm up to them very much. jon: is that why paul ryan is jumping into this? he's not generally known as

someone who makes immigration reform the centerpiece of his proposals. >> i think that is one of the reasons. it's also one of the reasons why senator marco rubio has said that immigration reform may actually decide the future of of the democratic -- the republican party. that the immigration reform decisions and votes may actually have a very big impact on his party. and i think that is why he and paul ryan and others are working so hard to find some workable compromise. >> joe trippi, a fox news contributor. joe, thanks. >> thanks, jon. jenna: new questions today about the widow of one of the suspected march-tosuspect marathon bombers. catherine russell is an all american girl who went through a big transformation. was she aware of her husband's alleged terror plot and how will she impact the case against her brother-in-law. concerns about the connection between al-qaida and iran in the

train terror plot. who is the next target jon: ..

jon: the two men busted in canada for allegedly plotting to attack a passenger train appearing in court today. canadian officials say the suspects from tunisia and the united arab emirates were receiving support from al qaeda elements inside iran. iran meantime denies any role in their alleged plot. brian jenkins is senior

advisor to the president of the rand corporation. director of the national transportation security center at the manetta transportation institute. brian, thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. jon: the authorities in canada are saying there is no connection to what happened in boston. do you see it that way? >> well, certainly there is no evidence of a connection. this plot apparently in canada, they have been monitoring since and during that time, apparently have not come across any evidence that would link that plot with the events in boston. i mean keep in mind, this kind of activity continues worldwide. in fact there were just some arrests in, in europe today of some others involved in jihadists plots. this is continuing thing we're dealing with. jon: it may happen worldwide but the royal canadian mounted police say it is the first time they have

uncovered a plot connected to al qaeda in canada. can that be true? >> well, there were previous plots that involved individuals that were acting on behalf of an al qaeda ideology. i think the distinction they're making here is that in this tick -- particular case, these two individuals were taking guidance or instruction from al qaeda elements in iran. so it is not simply inspired by the ideology, as we see in a number of these other plots but actually taking some direction from al qaeda elements abroad. jon: when the iranian government protests, they, the government, had nothing to do with this, should we believe them? >> that we don't know yet. i mean, certainly we have not seen al qaeda in iran as an operational affiliate, you know, such as al qaeda in iraq or al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. those who are in iraq, the

al qaeda members, sought refuge there some years ago as, we were chasing al qaeda out of again began. -- afghanistan. now iran allowed them to remain in iran but there have been complaints over the years that either they were involved in planning some terrorist attacks although those are old reports but more recently there were complaints they were involved in propaganda or fund-raising activitis. jon: obviously one of the concerns in this country based on what happened with the two suspects in the boston bombing, that one of them is an american citizen. one of them was working toward that. you're something of an expert in uncovering people inside the homeland who may turn to terrorism. overall, what, what approach should law enforcement be taking? are we doing the right things? >> well, thus far the record has been one of success. i mean the first good news

is that despite an intense recruiting effort online with online magazines and native-american speakers on behalf of al qaeda attempting to inspire and radicalize and recruit young men here to participate in acts of terrorism, they're not selling a lot of cars. this is, they're simply not gaining much, any traction in the muslim community. jon: and it was muslim community members in canada who tipped folks off to this latest plot? >> that's true here as well. there have been tips coming from citizens and in a number of cases inside the muslim community. so they're not really, there is no, no resonance in the community, no support for this. so since, since 9/11, between 9/11 and the end of 2012, they, 204 people were

arrested, or self-identified as jihadists. that is, they provided material support to al qaeda or they attempted to go off in some cases to successfully join groups like al shabaab in somalia where some of them killed themselves but that is, out of a population of several million muslim-americans, that is a very tiny turnout. jon: some good news there. all right. >> that's the good news. jon: brian michael jenkins, we'll have to say good-bye. we appreciate you coming on from the rand corporation. thanks. >> thank you. jenna: well some late-breaking details on the investigation into the boston marathon bombings. some new details really emerge about tamerlan tsarnaev's travel. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge is live in washington with more on this. so, catherine, what's new this morning. >> reporter: thank you, jenna. a short time ago in the front of senate judiciary committee the statements of homeland security secretary napolitano apparently

conflicting with statements by assistant fbi director to republican senator lindsey graham sunday night. this morning secretary napolitano confirming that homeland security knew the 26-year-old had left the u.s. for russia in 2012. >> was your department aware of his travels to russia and if you weren't, the reason? >> the travel in 2012, you're referring to, yes the system pinged when he was leaving the united states. by the time he returned, all investigations had been, the matter had been closed. >> reporter: after those statements the senators are told that the lookout system at the border, known as the tech system that alerts border agents subject to investigations or derogatory information, that lookout or warning from the fbi on tamerlan had expired. >> the point i'm trying to make after having talked to

the fbi they told me they had no knowledge of him leaving or coming back. the name was misspelled. so i would like to talk to you more about this case, how this man left, where he went and when we say there was no broader plot here, i just don't know how in the world we know that at this early stage. >> reporter: senator feinstein, chair of the senate intelligence committee tells reporters she also wants the fbi to explain its investigation of tamerlan tsarnaev. why the fbi intelligence unit didn't recheck the older brother after six months in russia given what the russians told the u.s. and how it might connect to a decision by homeland security to deny him status as a u.s. naturalized citizen, jenna. jenna: so much to learn about the suspects in this case, catherine, but there are a lot of questions what they used what their weapons were. what have we learned about the bombs? >> reporter: well what we're learning from the criminal complaint that was filed against the younger brother on monday is that the bombs were both pressure cooker bombs with low-grade explosives containing bbs

and nails and they use ad fuse commonly found in hobby stores or children's stores. we reported on that likelihood last week. a third improvised explosive device found at the scene with the shootout of the brothers was the same brand of pressure cookers as one used in marathon explosions. officials say one of the working theories that the tsarnaev brothers modeled their explosives after the pressure cooker bombs in the online propaganda magazine for al qaeda in yemen. it is known as inspire magazine. this is one. working theories they have at this time, jenna. jenna: catherine herridge live in washington. thank you. >> reporter: you're welcome. jon: president obama's so-called drone war is under the microscope. we'll look at what a senate committee hearing wants to hear from the administration on that controversial program. that tiny texas town rocked by a deadly explosion. some of the chilling 911 calls first made coming up. >> wow, look at that. look at that.

something exploded. man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help you get there.

even in stupid loud places. to prove it, we set up our call center right here... [ chirp ] all good? [ chirp ] getty up. seriously, this is really happening! [ cellphone rings ] hello? it's a giant helicopter ma'am. [ male announcer ] get it done [ chirp ] with the ultraugged ocera torque, only from sprint direct conct. buy one get four free for your business.

jenna: happening right now, a senate judiciary subcommittee is preparing to hold a very rare public hearing on the obama administration's controversial drone program. now lawmakers say they want to know more about who our government is killing, where, and why. some americans who have been killed in these types of programs include the man on

your screen there, american-born cleric, anwar al-awlaki. we have a retired united states air force colonel and first woman pilot to fly in combat. she will testify at today's hearing. we get to talk to her first, colonel. we stated first. we use the word drones. that is not something the military uses. >> no. jenna: we talked a little bit about this. this is a discrepancy and gives awe picture what these unmanned aerial vehicles are doing in our skies. in your experience, share with viewers how have you used this technology? >> sure. the iran the targeting program in u.s. africa command from 2007 to 2010. you're right we don't call them drones. we call them remotely piloted aircraft. the key there it takes 200 people to keep one of these airborne for a 24-hour orbit. it has incredible level oversight scrutiny,

intelligence, lawyers, commanders watching us use the tools. there are very legitimate questions as to whether we should use lethal force in the counterterrorism strategy overseas and how is that legal and whether it is the right strategy. once you decide to use lethal force and picking a platform, the rpas give you a tremendous amount of scrutiny, oversight, persistence, per significance and flexibility to abort at the last minute if the target moves or civilians come into the area. jenna: that is why i want to mention use of language is very important. when you say drone, oh, these are things flying around the skies. >> right. jenna: one person having a cup of coffee behind directs these type of things. as you point out that is not exactly the case. let's talk about how you think the drones should be used. and more importantly which is part of the hearing how much the public should know about it and the rest of the world. >> sure. jenna: the argument is if we're more transparent around this we'll get better favor from everybody. what do you think how we're using it and what we should

actually know about it. >> again just the fact we're calling it drones and drone wars, al qaeda has a very tremendous information operations campaign against us, playing into this. so we really need to get, use the right terminology and we need to make sure we understand the capabilities. the policy and the legal justification needs to be much more transparent. and with greater clarity. and i totally agree. we've been using this as a platform and a tool for counterterrorism for over a decade and we should be focusing on the justification, transparency of why and how that works. and then the process at the unclassified level, i can tell you that incredibly meticulous, with extraordinary oversight and scrutiny with hundreds and thousands of people involved, unlike, you think about it, if i was shooting 30 millimeter in afghanistan i would have a controller a young enlisted person and myself, i could be a lieutenant controlling fire power in the sky. when you're using a remotely

piloted aircraft you have commanders, lawyers, intelligence analysts all watching up until the last minute when you actually can abort the strike and call for fire. jenna: quickly our viewers heard from many critics from this program, senator paul, for example, wants more information different snare years. american citizen could be targeted here at home, what about the policy about that? those are some of the questions that have been raised. but i would like to ask you one thing about i read today about the use of the this technology, which the military use this is technology to detect homemade bombs. that is what i saw in boston. i was curious, and don't want to get too speculative how could a drone do that and could have drone helped in the boston investigation because being able to target that? >> we're using our remotely piloted aircraft all over the world but in afghanistan they provide us tremendous persistent surveillance if we get a tipoff of some sort of intelligence they can actually comb an area. they can identify

discrepancies with their television or infrared technology and then we can bring assets to bear either identify what is going on the ground or do that from the air. so it does bring capability as a tool and a platform for counterterrorism in many different places. look, we were using helicopters in boston with infrared cameras. they happen to be flown by individuals that eventually have to eat, go to the bathroom and sleep and fill up on gas. this surveillance asset provides persistence with similar technology in the surveillance role that can be used in many capacity. >> interesting to learn a little bit more about the technology. i know you have a big hearing later today. we look forward to the news out of that. thank you, so much, colonel, nice to have you back on the program. >> thanks for having me on. jon: we're just hearing first-hand accounts of the boston terror attacks from some of those who survived including this young woman. she was at the finish line when the bomb exploded. her story next.

jon: we are just beginning to hear from some surviving victims of the boston bombings. many still recovering from horrible injuries they still suffered in the place. one of them is 25-year-old caitlin cates she nearly lost her life. she was just at the finish line when the first blast knocked her off her feet injuring her lower leg. dr. marc siegel spoke to caitlin. he is live outside the hospital. doctor? >> it was a great privilege to meet caitlin and her friend leo in mass general hospital. she is an inspiration. she said she will not let the terrorists win as she recovers. she was at finish line. got blown off her feet by the bomb. leo put his t-shirt on the wound and carried her off to safety. >> i never looked back once he was carrying me.

my head was in his chest and my hands were elevating my leg in the air. so i think he saw more than i did but i never looked back until i saw the pictures and all the people on the ground. >> a decade of war has prepared our surgeons here, civilian surgeons to be able to operate on these people. i spoke to dr. david king, who was both a trauma surgeon in iraq and also worked on the patients as they recovered. let's hear what he had to say? >> all of our patients have benefited from our, the lessons learned from the past decade of battlefield experiences especially, especially with respect to their lower extremity wounds. there is no question that our patients now are benefiting from the lessons learned in the past decade of war. >> caitlin is expected to fully recover but it will be a long road. i also interviewed people at the boston spaulding rehabilitation medical center where a lot of these patients will go to recover.

both psychologically and physically they have a long road ahead of them. jon? jon: her full recovery is very good news. dr. siegel. thank you. >> thanks, jon. jenna: the surviving suspect in the boston terror attack has already been charged with conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction and faces more federal charges. he will go through the civilian court system. coming up our legal panel will debate what's next as investigators build their case.

>> reporter: hi, everybody, rick folbaum in the "happening now" control room. breaking news on the boston terror investigation. the latest on the suspect, his possible motivation, the victims left behind. plus, what the wife of the dead bombing suspect is saying today. also your online shopping could get very different very soon. is it a tax hike or just a way to help out some small business owners? prices will be going up. and the sounds of a sickening discovery. aerothe 911 calls made by the people of west texas as they reported on that plant explosion that just about wiped part of their town off the map. all of that and breaking news as the second hour of "happening now" starts right now. jon: a new terror plot uncovered in canada linked to al-qaeda in iran. the alleged target, a passenger train traveling between new york and toronto. it is a brand new hour of "happening now," thanks for joining us, i'm jon scott.

jenna: hi, everybody, i'm jenna lee, and here's the story. there are two suspects now in custody, and they will be appearing in court today. canadian police picked them up in montreal and toronto following what's been described as a lengthy investigation. the men allegedly received direction and guidance from al-qaeda members, and here's the catch: apparently, these al-qaeda members were based in iran. national correspondent steve centanni is live in washington with more on this. steve, let's start off with what's happening in the courts today. what's the latest from canada? >> reporter: yeah, jenna, one suspect has already appeared before a judge in toronto, the other set to appear in montreal. they both face carjacks of plotting to -- face charges of plotting to attack a train in canada. one wearing a long black beard accompanied by his parents and his brother. he did not enter a plea, and the judge scheduled another appearance for next month. 30-year-old suspect is due to appear in court today in

montreal. neither man is canadian, and sources tell associated press that one is tunisian, the other from the united arab emirates. canadian authorities say the men got guidance from al-qaeda in iran, but they were not close to carrying out their attack. >> while the rcmp believed the accused had the capacity and intent to carry out these criminal acts, there was no imminent threat to the general public, rail employees, train passengers or infrastructure. >> reporter: rcmp is royal canadian mounted police. they had worked hand in hand with the fbi and homeland security for months. it was an eight month long investigation called project smooth. jenna? jenna: canada is very clear, as we just saw there, about the iran connection. but iran has been denying this as well, steve. so walk us through this. what kind of help specifically is canada saying iran offered these two men? >> reporter: well, it didn't

get very specific, but as you said, they're very clear there was a connection. they didn't say what help was offered or how, but authorities do say no direct funding came from al-qaeda in iran. now, the iranians insisted today, once again, that there's no connection between tehran and al-qaeda. here's an english-language report from tv on what was said. >> however, the allegations were dismissed as canada's campaign to create attempts of an atmosphere of iran-phobia. >> reporter: in fact, the u.s. says there are some al-qaeda operatives in iran which the iranians have largely kept under house arrest. jenna? jenna: didn't bin laden's son-in-law, right, was recently in iran for several years before he left and was picked up by authorities just recently over the last couple months. so definitely more to that connection to be explored in the coming days and weeks. steve, thank you very much. it's a story we'll continue to watch. jon: so al-qaeda link today a

canadian terror plot targeting a u.s. passenger train. the deadly terror bombing at the boston marathon, four americans including the u.s. ambassador murdered by terrorists in benghazi, libya. all of it is putting the obama administration's policy on terror back in the spotlight. will it affect the white house agenda? let's talk about it with david drucker, senior editor of "roll call." the president often said especially during the campaign that al-qaeda is on the run. does this prove him wrong, david? >> well, i don't know if it proves him wrong. i think time will tell how much of an issue this becomes for him politically. i think the question here, jon, is does the -- do the recent events overtake his agenda for the balance of his presidency to where he has to focus in public largely on national security and foreign policy issues as opposed to his very robust domestic agenda? jon: lindsey graham was on with his last hour and pretty critical about the job the department of homeland

security -- which, after all, is an arm of the administration -- did in the tsarnaev case. want to play a clip. >> my problem with this administration is their policies are failing. they do not believe that we're at war. they ignored signs and warnings from libya. we haven't had one person detained as an enemy combatant for intelligence-gathering purposes since he's been president. jon: is this starting to resonate with voters, do you think? >> i don't know yet that we've seen that. but we could see it over time. i think it pretty much depends on how the public views the president's handling of these incidents, and do they think that the president is keeping them safe. as we saw under president bush, you can have a horrific attack on the home lambed, and if you respond -- homeland, and if you respond in a way the public feels you should respond, they like your response, they're going to feel good about the situation overall in terms of whether you're keeping them safe, whether you have a strategy to protect them.

they're not necessarily going to look at the event itself, but the response. so i think part of it is going to be this, jon, the president has always shown a desire the treat acts of terror or potential acts of terror as law enforcement issues. he's shied away from the idea of a global war on terror that the bush administration embraced heartily. and so we will find out over time if the public approves of the president's handling and tone in how he's handled this. now, we saw largely in the first term that they did approve his numbers on foreign policy and terrorism were usually pretty good. they took a little bit of a hit of after benghazi, but it wasn't a fatal hit as we now know. and so part of that is are there more attacks that we thwart, any more attacks that are pulled off, and do people feel secure? that's going to take time for us to learn and, also, what did we learn about boston? did an arm of the administration whether it was the fbi or

homeland security make a mistake, or was this one of those cases, you know, like they say you can stop things 10,000 times, it's the one time that gets you. jon: one bit of political news this morning was announced, and i wanted to get your reaction to it. max baucus, the finance committee chairman in the senate, the guy who sort of shepherded obamacare through the senate, announced he's going to retire at the end of his term in early 2015. he's a democrat in a conservative state. what does that do, first of all, for the republicans' prospects of retaking the senate? >> well, jon, it looks really good for the republicans to have a guy like max baucus with his campaign firepower retire until you realize that governor brian schweitzer may now run in his place. and i think montana tans like governor schweitzer a whole lot more than they like max baucus. so the republicans, ironically, might have been better off with baucus on the ballot even though he's a dogged campaigner and a smart political operator.

i think this is big news on capitol hill where max but a us is always at the center of the big legislative developments. he's working on a tax reform bill. not that i think it's going to come to fruition, but he has that kind of access and power. and so i think, you know, for republicans you in theory always like to have of an open seat because incumbents, in theory, are harder to beat. but i think once they're going to to be the underdog in this race. unless the president's poll numbers next year look something similar to 2010 where people had just really soured on his leadership. jon: max baucus was one of the five democrats that voted against the gun control legislation that recently did not make it out of the u.s. senate, much to the president's displeasure. david drucker from "roll call," thank you. >> thanks a lot. jenna: talking about the political implications there with all the different reports of terror attacks over the last several days.

one of the things that's come up is whether or not it's going to impact the debate on immigration. today a senate committee heard from homeland chief janet napolitano on reform legislation, and things got a little heated. one leading democrat accusing opponents of using the terror attack in boston as an excuse to put the brakes on the bill. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel is live from capitol hill wherefireworks are common, especially with a lot of these hearings, mike. what are we learning from the secretary today? >> reporter: well, jenna, secretary napolitano told senators that the department of homeland security will take lessons learned from the attack in boston, and that federal agencies will emerge even stronger, but earlier she reflected on the attack in boston. >> in this case law enforcement at all levels joined together and shared knowledge, expertise and resources. many had been specifically trained in improvised explosive device threats, and many had exercised for in this very type of scenario.

the response was swift, effective and in many ways will serve as a model for the future. >> reporter: now, this attack in boston has caused some lawmakers on capitol hill to the say they want to wait for lessons learned from the boston investigation to see if some of that should be coordinated in comprehensive immigration reform. there's a lot of anxiety about this. this is a very heated issue up here on capitol hill, and so we have seen some emotion over the past couple days. jenna: let's talk a little more about that emotion. what are the republicans saying about all of this? >> reporter: well, essentially, they are saying that perhaps, you know, there is something that can be learned even though the suspects in boston were legal immigrants, perhaps there's something that should be done to better protect the united states, and secretary napolitano said that she would look at lessons learned to make sure that they can prevent future attacks. there was one lighter moment today when texas republican senator john cornyn noted that heno agreed on border fencing, but the top senate republican continues to

express his concerns. >> we have a duty to protect the borders and the sovereignty of this country, but i'm concerned that the bill we're discussing repeats the mistakes of the past and won't secure the border and stop the flow of illegal miuation. migration. >> reporter: now, texas senator ted cruz and napolitano wrestled at the end of the hearing over the issue of measuring exactly how secure the borders are. there's some concern that while ap rehences may be down at the border, perhaps illegal immigrants are getting craftier at finding ways into the country that are not accurately measured. jenna? jenna: interesting part of the debate, big debate that it is. mike, thank you. jon: the search for a killer after an officer of the law is gunned down in the his own home. who police say they are looking for at this hour. plus, the new assessment out of israel that syria's bashar assad is using chemical weapons against his own people.

how this could trigger a u.s. intervention in that long conflict. a live report as we recall the red line set by president obama. >> the use of chemical weapons is and would be totally unacceptable. and if you make the tragic mistake of using these weapons, there will be consequences, and you will be held accountable. none of us think bad things are gonna happen to us. i'm here at my house on thanksgiving day, and i have a massive heart attack right in my driveway. an artery in your heart, it's called the widow maker. and mine was 95% blocked. they took me to the hospital, and the doctor put me on a bayerspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone, so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i'm a blue-collar worker. to me, bayer aspirin is another tool. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore. ♪ ybefore i do any projects on on my own.st at angie's list, you'll find reviews

written by people just like you. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. [ man ] excuse me miss. [ gasps ] this fiber one 90 calorie brownie has all the deliciousness you desire. the brownie of your dreams is now deliciously real.

the 8% every 10 years.age 40, we can start losing muscle --

wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve, and promote muscle health. keeps you from getting soft. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! jenna: well, we're following a manhunt going on for a suspected cop killer on the loose. police are looking for 27-year-old antoine james. he's charged with the murder of his stepfather, off-duty washington, d.c. police officer joseph newall. police say james shot and killed newall at the family's home in maryland last night. investigatessers say they were reportedly arguing about yard work before the shooting. police say james should be considered armed and dangerous. jon: secretary of state john

kerry says nato should consider its response to a potential chemical weapons threat coming out of syria as israel publicly, for the first time, says syrian president bashar assad recently used chemical weapons on his own people. this assessment could raise pressure on the united states and its allies to intervene in syria's bloody civil war. remember this warning from president obama: >> we have been very clear to the assad regime but also to other players on the ground that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. that would change my calculus. the use of chemical weapons is and would be totally unacceptable. and if you make the tragic mistake of using these weapons, there will be consequences, and you will be held accountable. jon: let's get the update from

conor powell, he's live in jerusalem. connor? >> reporter: jp, for several months now there's been conflicting reports about the use of chemical weapons in syria, but in the last week or so both britain and france have said there's credible evidence that the assad regime has used chemical weapons in syria. now, today former syria israeli general also made that claim, he said that israeli intelligence suggests the assad regime has used a nerve agent multiple times, but secretary of defense chuck hagel says that the intelligence remains inconclusive. as the u.s. continues to assess the situation, the white house has said publicly several times it would not tolerate the use of chemical weapons by syrian forces, and secretary of state john kerry today said that nato needs to prepare a response if, in fact, the assad regime does use chemical weapons. but with the mounting evidence they may have already crossed that line, the bigger question is what would the u.s. do?

there are few good options. military intervention may take out the assad regime, may take out some of those chemical weapons stockpile, but there's also the concern, jon, that if the u.s. intervenes militarily, some of those chemical weapons could, in fact, fall into the hands of extremist groups who are fighting with the rebels against the assad regime. there are really no good options right now in syria, jon. jon: conor powell, obviously, a situation that is going to be watched carefully. thankjenna: we have some breakig news on the man accused of mailing poison letters to the president and a united states senator. we'll have more of on that after a quick break. plus, some new details on the canadian terror plot targeting a passenger train and the cross-border investigation between our country and canada. what this means about the threats against us.

jon: breaking now, and we are just getting word of new developments in the case against paul kevin curtis. he is accused of sending poisoned letters to president obama and mississippi senator roger wicker. rick folbaum live in the newsroom with more on that. >> reporter: well, jon, this is a bit of a surprise. today was supposed to be day three of pretrial court hearings. instead we've just learned that today's hearing has been canceled and, instead, a news conference has been scheduled for later on today. we're trying to find out exactly what's going on, why the switch. curtis, as you mentioned, the mississippi-based elvis impersonator who prosecutors are saying sent letters lace with the the poison ricin to the president, wicker and a local judge. no one was hurt. so far there's been absolutely no physical evidence linking him to the crime though. no poison in the his home, no incriminating internet searches

on his home computer, and his defense lawyer says that cu disis -- curtis is being set up, possibly by an old business associate. apparently, investigators zeroing in on curtis who's 45 years old based in part on his initials. the letters that were sent all contained the line i'm kc, and i approved this message. curtis had written wicker in the past and lives in the same postal area as the one where the letters were posted from. his family says he has a history of mental illness, but that hearing has been canceled as we wait for that news conference scheduled for 5 p.m. central time. jon: strange developments there. rick folbaum, thanks. jenna: well, the canadian authorities halting a major terror plot targeting a passenger train arresting two suspects following a cross-border investigation in coordination, i should say, with homeland security and the fbi.

scott weber served as senior council, former homeland security secretary michael chertoff. you know, scott, when we hear about these plots foiled, it almost seems that they sort of wash over us. that's good it didn't happen, glad they got those guys, but how serious should we consider that canada got these guys that were allegedly going to blow up a bridge with a passenger train going over it? >> very serious. and unfortunately, we become desensitized. our alert level ought to be heightened in light of boston, canada and other thwarted plots right here in new york city. we can't let our guard down, and the fact that you have two terrorists who were looking to blow up a bridge that a train was going to travel over with u.s. and canadian citizens is something very serious. jenna: any connection that you see to the boston bombing? just because it seems like all this is news is coming out all of a sudden in these different stories. >> so connection between the terrorists and boss -- boston and canada, there doesn't appear

to be at this point. you don't need state-sponsored terrorism for people to commit terrorist acts. here you have the tsarnaev brothers, two, in essence, lone wolves. you have two folks up in canada who are not canadian citizens, it doesn't appear they're sponsors up there, though an al-qaeda connection. people can do harm without having a government backing. jenna: that's a good point. let's go to the canada situation because the canadian government is very clear that they think there is a state sponsor connection. they think iran is behind these guys somehow, some way with al-qaeda. that's what they say. this is the canadian government saying it. iran comes out, this is iran's reaction from one of the high-ranking officials. this is the most hilarious thing i've heard in 64 years, the official says. what do you think? >> so the reports have been conflicting. many of the reports have said that there doesn't appear to be an official state sponsorship, but that there's an al-qaeda tie. and the odd thing is that there's an an al-qaeda tie in

iran. there is by the border of afghanistan and pakistan, there's a region there where there have been al-qaeda affiliates and facilitators that use that area to move money and to help al-qaeda out. so the connection appears to toe at this point more of an al-qaeda connection and not to the iranian government. jenna: that's an interesting discrepancy, because we heard about bin laden's brother-in-law -- son-in-law, i don't want to get the relationships mixed up, was in iran for several years before he recently left and was taken into custody and is now being put through court proceedings. so there's been a lot of questions about just how involved the iranian government is versus looking the other direction for these different terrorist organizations. does it matter though? i mean, if the government looks the other way and says we're not officially sponsoring you, you don't have our emblem on your jacket, but does it matter? >> the enemy of my enemy is my friend. so i don't think from iran's standpoint it really matters. remember, canada received all diplomatic ties with iran over a

year ago. jenna: which is kind of a slap in its face to iran who likes to say look at the other people who have got their embassy here. >> absolutely. jenna: go back to state sponsor of terror and needing a big group. it seems it's easier for us to digest -- and i'm making a little bit of a generalization -- when we say, oh, it is an al-qaeda guy, this is a taliban guy, and we think, oh, that's a real terrorist versus other people -- >> just a crazy guy. jenna: how should we work through that as citizens to know where the threat really lies? >> so the threat, i hate to be -- you know, say something shocking, but the threat lies everywhere. just take amtrak, just one piece of our mass transit system. over 21,000 miles of tracks and 44 routes. the boston may than was 26 -- marathon was 26 miles, and it's difficult to secure that 26 mile area much less 21,000 miles of track. this country has to change its outlook on its day-to-day life. we have to have a cultural

shift. for somebody to leave a bag by a garbage can and people to see it and not say anything about it, that doesn't happen in israel. welcome back seconds, people -- within seconds, people report it. unfortunately, we immediate to change the way we view and go about our day-to-day life. jenna: so you've worked inside a government agency, decide a bureaucracy. we all have at different points, inside a bureaucratic institution. you're not advocating for more pure rocky, you're saying it really comes down to an american citizen. >> it's a combination. look, the folks in law enforcement and intelligence are working very hard, but we've heard the phrase over and over again, we have to be right 100% of the time, they only have to be right one time. and that's true. but law enforcement can't do it all themselves. we're eyes and ears. i pulled my iphone out, but i have to keep it offset. that's a very powerful tool. social media's a powerful tool that i don't think we're leveraging enough. look at the tsarnaev brother

with the youtube channel he set up. they need citizens to take an active role. jenna: scott, as always, thank you very much. great to have yous. jon: the new charges that the tsarnaev suspect could be facing. what it means for the prosecution, plus what it could mean for getting justice for the victims of this attack. our legal panel takes up the case. and online shopping could be in for a big change. that means less change in your pocket. what an internet sales tax would mean for you. [ male announcer ] how do you measure happiness?

by the armful? by the barrelful? e carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight.

campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.

jon: "happening now," the lone surviving suspect in the boston terror attack could be facing more chargings. state prosecutors expect to charge sow hard tsarnaev separately, and the feds could also add new charges once he's indicted in the bombings this as we're learning the 19-year-old has been read his miranda rights, and the obama administration announcing he will be tried in a civilian court. with us now, two former federal prosecutors, lis wiehl, doug burns is a criminal defense attorney. we'll get to all that in a minute. but i also want to talk about catherine russell. she is the wife of the now-dead tam p land star navy. she has, apparently -- well, he's the statement from her attorney, a guy named deluca, says she is doing everything she can to assist with the investigation. everything except, apparently,

speaking to federal investigators, because at last report she hadn't even talked to them yet. >> right. well, her lawyer -- and i'm sure doug will agree with me -- he's representing her, trying to make sure she gets immunity. whatever she says they cannot charge her with anything, they cannot -- anything they get from her cannot be brought back to her. that's the kind of the defense lawyer's going to work on right now for her. >> in other words, they go in, and the conundrum is, wait a minute, how can i tell them information, so they sign what's called a queen for a day protection. nothing you say at that meeting will be used against you, and then we'll decide whether or not your information is valuable enough -- >> or she can get whole immunity. >> right. >> anything she says going forward, it doesn't matter, they would just -- the feds want so much information, exactly, that they could get -- jon: all right. well, yeah, would you sign that deal as a federal prosecutor? what if she was sitting around the kitchen table listening to to plans about how this was

going to go down? >> but here's the key, what's interesting to put a little finer point on this, what happens is let's assume i killed somebody, keep it real simple, and i go in and admit i killed the person. if somebody took a video of me doing the killing, they can go forward. they just can't use the words uttered, but that's as far as it goes. >> it's exactly what you're talking about with the miranda warnings, over the weekend he did not get them, but it didn't really matter if they had enough evidence beyond the miranda warnings, you see? so if she has information or if they've got evidence against her beyond what she says, that can still be used against her. >> so what i was saying to you, jon, yeah, i'd sign on for one day. >> queen of the day. >> then she turns around, we make these dumb jokes, she knows where jimmy hoffa's body is, that that, if they have ridiculously valuable information, then, of course, you give her a pass. jon: okay. so now the case against dzhokhar

who are apparently unable to speak. we now have state charges filed against him. is that a big deal? massachusetts does not have a death penalty. >> no. jon: the federal government actually does, and it could apply in this case. >> yes. the federal government charges in a criminal complaint, look for these to be updated in an indictment. within the 48-hour rule, they had to file this criminal complaint with these two charges. they'll now go to a grand jury and look for from the defense perspective, correct me if i'm wrong, a change of venue motion. >> yeah, what lis is saying you have two charges in here. that does not mean they cannot file an indictment with ten charges. this is just what we lawyers call a holding charge for ten days. climb goes to -- indictment goes to a grand jury, they will add additional charges. les's point which is massachusetts is vehemently against the death penalty, remember, this is in federal court, so theoretically that's not supposed to matter, so lis's

point is well taken. they may move it to a federal court outside of massachusetts. >> oklahoma bombing mcveigh went from oklahoma to colorado for the death penalty case. jon: right. but if, you know, there are a few states more liberal than massachusetts, so if they move it out of massachusetts, i mean, would they move it out of massachusetts, or would they move it to, i don't know -- >> i think the defense lawyer's going to ask for definitely a moving out of the area because who in massachusetts -- the defense would say -- be unbias 1234-d it could be rhode island or somewhere else equally as liberal. >> well, but the theory is you'd move it to a less liberal concern. >> well, tsa for the judge to decide -- that's for the judge to decide. jon: we'll see. that's going to be an interesting conundrum for that defense team when and if we find out who they are. thanks very much, doug burns, lis wiehl. jenna: in other news, the white house is backing a plan to add a new tax to purchases made on the internet meant to level the playing field for local retailers, but it could cost you more money.

chief washington correspondent be james rosen does a lot of online shopping as research for part of this segment, right, james? [laughter] what do we need to know about this change? >> reporter: well, propriety forbids me from sharing what i'm buying online, but at issue is a bill that has attracted an unusual degree of bipartisan support on capitol hill especially in the wake of the gun laws vote. the senate voted yesterday 74-20 to allow the marketplace fairness act to be debated and have amendments to it voted on. unlike a lot of other measures that make it to floor of the house or senate for consideration, the one is just 11 pages long. the proposed law would require all online retailers, except those making a million dollars a year or less, to collect sales taxes for the state and local governments where their buyers reside. states would be required to provide the requisite software. proponents hail the mfa as long overdue, a move that would lift an unfair burden off the backs of local brick and mortar

retailers who see customers browse their showrooms without buying only to rush off to purchase a desired item without the sales tax added. opponents including ebay and lawmakers from states that have no sales tax saying this will harm the internet and the country's fragile economic recovery. >> big retailers effectively seeking a legislative bailout have allied themselves with state governments who see the marketplace fairness act as an opportunity to obtain new tax revenue without enduring the political consequence of enforcing their own tax laws in their own jurisdiction. >> this administration has carefully considered the legislation, and our team has met with a broad array of people on the issue, and we have heard overwhelmingly from governors, mayors and the business community on the need for federal legislation to level the playing field for our businesses and address sales tack fairness. tax fairness. >> reporter: as you can see, the white house in this debate has effectively clicked i agree.

the house is expected to take up an identical bill fairly swiftly jenna: a story we'll continue to watch. james, thank you very much. jon: even on the internet nothing is we were but death -- is certain but death and taxes. jenna: how depressing. jon, come on. jon: going inside the mind of a terrorist. the two brothers tied to the boston marathon bombings have ties to chechnya. we'll talk with an expert who has talked to hundreds of terrorists including many from that russian region. plus, a bright fireball lights up the sky for hundreds of miles. a dazzling display that turns might into day. where was it? [ male announcer ] we all have something neatly tucked away in the back of our mind. a secret hope. that thing we've always wanted to do. it's not about having dreams,

it's about reaching them. ♪ an ally for real possibilities. aarp. find tools and direction at aarp.org/possibilities.

jon: some pretty crazy new video out of argentina. concertgoers there getting quite a show as what appears to be a meteor streaks across the sky. you can see a bright object appearing to fall toward earth, bursting into a ball of light. a folk music band was performing on stage at the time in this video. local media reports show sightings as far as 250 miles away. jenna: well, one key question in the boston marathon terror attack is why? you know, why would anyone do this? one suspect is dead, the other remains hospitalized under heavy

guard, barely able to speak according to reports, so it may be a while before we get a full picture, learn more about the motive or any outside influence that could have impacted these two young men on our screen. our next guest may have some clues or at least a way to look at this in a different way than some of our conversations have allowed. in the author of "talking to terrorists," she's interviewed hundreds of terrorists and their family, and can she's our guest today. ann, nice to have you with us. >> thank you, jenna, glad to be here. jenna: when stories like this happen, we want to better understand, but we don't want to explain away accountability, especially in a situation like the boston bombing. so what should we consider when we're considering why, the motivation? where do you start? >> well, when i heard they were chechnyans, right away that told me something because even if they didn't grow up in the war there, they're connected to it. and they were part of a -- the chechnyans, the whole group, was part of a separatist movement that got infiltrated by the

militant jihadi thinking, and then they started using suicide terrorism, they bought on to the martyrdom ideology, so i thought being chechnyans, they came from a difficult area to begin with. so that's where i start. and as the details about these two young men has come out, there's a lot more to explain them. of. jenna: let's talk more about sow hard, the surviving suspect in this case. according to reports, he's been in our country longer than he was overseas. he's an american citizen like you and me. of so how -- what would be the key to radicalizing him if that's the case? how would he go from the side of lightness, if you will, anne, for lack of a better term to the side of darkness? >> well, that's exactly what happened. you see this beautiful young man that has embraced evil. and it looks like -- and we're not sure yet, but it looks like his brother pulled him along. and someone pulled the brother

in. the way i explain it, i listened to an interview in russian of his kindergarten teacher, tamerlan's teacher, she said the family was wonderful, good people, but when he came to preschool, he had come out of the first chechnyan war, and he was very sensitive to fire crackers and loud noises, and she attributed that to war trauma. so i from the beginning, does tamerlan have ptsd? then during the second chechnyan war the father had lost his job, then he came here. tamerlan didn't come right in the beginning. so he had a lot of moves, a lot of difficult things -- jenna: if i could, anne, even considering that very dynamic past if that is, indeed, the case, and we showed a little bit of the interview with the teacher, people go through that, and not everyone becomes a terrorist. so what would be the tipping point, if you will, for someone in a state, a mental state where there's ptsd or other side to, again, switch to terrorism?

>> the way these groups work, they take a vulnerable individual which he was, and they expose them to a terrorist ideology, and the current militant jihadi ideology has a narrative where they feel sorry for muslims that they claim are oppressed around the world, and they instigate for fighting back against western powers that are supposedly hurting muslims around the world. he uploaded a video of the syrian uprising showing that he felt sympathy for what assad was doing to the syrian people there, which was very similar to what happened to the chechnyan people. a lot of civilian deaths, heavy-handed fist coming down -- jenna: it's so interesting you say that, because an initial report it's only one, and it's from unnamed sources to "the washington post." i just offer the viewers that for some context. according to the reporting of "the washington post", what we have heard from the younger brother is that our wars in the muslim world, meaning america's wars, have somehow motivated him

and his brother to fight back even though he is an american citizen, although also a muslim. and if we could take a step back from the terrorist for a moment and talk about our own psychology, sometimes that comes up in conversation. you know, if we were a different country, if we didn't go to war, if he helped these -- if we helped these two assimilate, they would have never done that. what do you think when you hear that conversation? what should we consider there? >> i wouldn't blame it on us being at war. i would blame it on a terrorist group and a terrorist ideology that caught these two young men who felt sympathy because they themselves had come out of a war-torn area. so, of course, they're going to easily feel sympathy for others. and they are muslim, so they're going to relate to that. and we have to understand the immigrants often have more than one identity, and those two things can be at war with each other. and then i'm concerned that it looks like tamerlan maybe got into drugs here and felt guilty about it. be. jenna: we would love to have you back to talk more about that. i'm going to have to leave our

conversation here today, but there are a few reports about the last few years and some questions raised about both brothers. and great to have you on the program. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. jon: there are chilling 911 recordings that capture the chaos moments after the deadly texas fertilizer plant explosion. you'll hear them coming up. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb

to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve, and promote muscle health. keeps you from getting soft. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge!

jenna: well, some newly-released 911 tapes capture the chilling moments following the explosion in west texas. rick has more from the newsroom. >> reporter: while investigators continue their work to try to find the exact cause of last week's horrific explosion in texas, we're getting to hear what it was like for people who lived nearby. stunned and scared and unsure of exactly what was going on.

>> reporter: 14 people were killed, 200 injured when a fertilizer plant blew up. most were first responders who had gone to the scene which had started as a fire. texas is known for attracting businesses by promising not to intrude with needless regulations, but governor rick perry saying that none of that played a role in this tragedy. the president declaring a state of emergency in west texas, freeing up federal money and resources. he and the first lady will attend a memorial service thursday in nearby waco for all the victims. back to you. jenna: rick, thank you. jon: new developments in the investigation of battery fires that grounded boeing's 787

dreamliners. a two-day hearing kicking off today as the national transportation safety board takes a closer look at one fire in particular just days after the faa approved boeing's plan to get its fleet back in the air. dan springer is live in seattle. dan? >> reporter: yeah, jon. the faa approved the battery fix even as the company answers tough questions about the fire back in january that led to the dreamliner fleet getting grounded. the plane's lithium ion battery sured a short which led to the failure of all eight cells. boeing's new plan includes a redesigned battery that has more insulation between the cells to prevent what's called thermal runaway. the battery charger has been redesigned to reduce the total amount of energy in the battery so it doesn't work as hard, and it's going to be in a better steel containment box that won't allow oxygen to fuel a fire. the ntsb put boeing on the defensive this morning about its assumptions that turned out to be wrong. >> what we can't do is we can't

account for every single possible method of short circuit, particularly what we would consider the unknown unknowns. >> reporter: boeing says it has logged 200,000 engineering hours on the battery fix and another 100,000 hours of testing. nineteen certification tests were done, and that was enough to convince the faa the public will be safe. boeing is in the process of retrofitting the 50 dreamliners, and we expect to have the first airline back up in the air are the retro-- airline retrofitted by the end of next week. jon: let's hope that's the end of the problem. dan springer, thank you. and we'll be right back. ...

... [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ just seem to fade away...? now start vibrant, stay vibrant! new vidal sassoon pro series

has an exclusive hydrablock system that helps fight fade out -- for up to 8 weeks. vidal sassoon pro series. salon genius. affordable for all.